THE ISRAELI ART STUDENTS AND MOVERS STORY -- Part 4

Minutes of a hearing

The Minister of Citizenship and Immigration

Le ministre de la Citoyenneté et de l’Immigration

and / et

ROY LANIADO

September 17, 2003, Ottawa

BY MEMBER:

-                Good Morning.  My name is Pierre Turmel. I am a member of the Immigration Division.  Today is September 17, 2003, and I’ve been asked to preside an admissibility hearing concerning Roy Laniado.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             That is you?

A.             Yes, sir.

Q.             Mr. Laniado, I understand you are fluent in English. You did not have the services of a Hebrew interpreter?

A.             No, I don’t.

-                No.  Okay.

                The lady to my right is the Minister’s counsel, Madame Sybill Powell.

Q.             Now, Mr. Laniado, I guess you have been told that an admissibility hearing was to take place today. Am I correct?

A.             Yes, sir.

-                On the Notice to Appear for this hearing, which you received, there’s a mention to the effect that you have the right, if you want, to retain the services of a lawyer. It is a right that you have. It is not an obligation as you may choose to proceed on your own.

Q.             So what do you want to do today?

A.             I think I can explain myself in most of the case.

-                Good.  I till then proceed. However, if any time during the course of the hearing you change your mind and you feel that the presence of a lawyer would become necessary, all you have to do is let me know. Okay.

A.             I have a question.

-                Yes.

A.             After the hearing conclude,...

-                Yes.

A.             ...could then I come to a lawyer and appeal upon this hearing?

-                No, there's no appeal.

A.             No appeal.

-                There's no appeal.

A.             Okay.

-                That there be a lawyer here or not, there won't be any appeal against the outcome of the hearing.

A.             Okay.

-                Okay.

                Now, you have a package of documents. I have the originals here. The very one is a referral for inquiry under subsection 44(2) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. This document was made at Ottawa, on the 15th of September 2003. This document only gives me jurisdiction to proceed with the hearing. I will file it as Exhibit C-1.

EXHIBIT C-1 - SUBSECTION 44(2) REFERRAL-SEPT. 15, 2003

                The other document which is most important to you is the report made under subsection 44 sub (1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. It is also dated, well, it is dated the 12th of September 2003.

Q.             Have you read that report in full?

A.             I read it briefly. Now I go...

Q.             You want to have a couple of minutes?

A.             Sure.

-                There are two pages. While you’re reading I’ll say that I will file this report as Exhibit C-2.

EXHIBIT C-2-SUBSECTION 44(1) REPORT-SEPT. 12TH, 2003

A.             There is one thing that is not copy right.

-                Okay, do not explain immediately. You will be given an opportunity during the course of the hearing to testify, okay.

Q.             Now, you’ve read it in full. Now, do you understand what it says in there?

A.             Yes, I do.

-                Okay. Let me give you a bit of explanations as to the purpose of the hearing and its possible consequences for you. First of all, I'm here to determine if you have a right to remain into Canada. Canadian citizens and permanent residents of Canada have a right to stay here. If you are not such a person, I will then have to look at the well-foundedness of the allegations appearing on the report. And if I find these allegations to be true, I’ll have no other choice but to make an Exclusion Order in your case. This is a removal order. This will mean that you will have to leave Canada, and you will also be prohibited from coming back to his country for a certain period of time.

                If I were to find that the first allegation, the only first allegation is founded, you'll be prohibited from coming back to Canada for one year. If I find that both are, that is the last one too, then you'll be prohibited for two years. If you ever want to come back here within that period of time, you will firstly have to present yourself to a Canadian Consulate or Embassy in any country where Canada has official representatives, and this in order to ask for and obtain the Minister's written consent.

Q.             Are those explanations clear to you?

A.             Yes.

-                Okay.

Q.             Following my explanations, are you still ready to proceed on your own?

A.             Yes, sir.

-                Okay. Now, the Minister’s counsel, Madame Powell, has the burden of proof. She will most likely call you as a witness. She may call other witnesses. She may present documentary evidence. On your side, you'll have the opportunity to examine all the evidence, cross-examine witnesses, if any persons are being called to testify.

A.             Okay.

-                And at your turn, you'll be given an opportunity to present your own evidence. Okay.

A.             Yes, sir.

BY MEMBER (to Minister's counsel)

-                Madame Powell.

A.             Yes, Mr. Member.

Q.             You wish to call him as a witness?

A.             Yes, please.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

-                Mr. Laniado, you’re being called as a witness to this hearing. I’d like you to please stand up and raise your right hand.

Q.             Do you solemnly affirm that the evidence you are about to give shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

A.             Yes, sir.

-                Thank you. Have a seat.

BY MEMBER (to Minister's counsel)

-                Your witness.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

-                Please state your full name for the record.

A.             Mr. Roy Ezra Laniado.

Q.             Any other names?

A.             No.

Q.             What is your date of birth?

A.             February 7, 1979.

Q.             And where were you born?

A.             Israel.

Q.             What is your citizenship?

A.             Israeli.

Q.             Are you a Canadian citizen?

A.             No.

Q.             Are you permanent resident of Canada?

A.             No.

Q.             When did you enter Canada?

A.             March 23rd.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             Of which year?

A.             2003.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             And where was that?

A.             Toronto.

Q.             When you came to Canada what did you tell the Port of Entry officer what’s your reason for coming?

A.             Travelling.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             I’m sorry?

A.             I told him I’m coming to travel.

Q.             As a tourist?

A.             Yes.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             Why were you coming to Canada?

A.             To travel.

Q.             Was that your sole reason for coming to Canada?

A.             Yes.

Q.             On the 12th of September you were arrested with a number of others. Can you tell me why you were with this group of people?

A.             Yes, I came here to meet the guys.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             You came here to meet who?

A.             To meet the persons that were arrested.

-                With you, okay.

A.             To give them frames, paintings. To leave the same day to Toronto.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             Why were you giving them frames and paintings?

A.             For them to sell them.

Q.             Was that the first day you met them?

A.             No.

Q.             How often had you supplied them with frames and paintings?

A.             Once a week, once in two weeks.

Q.             Did you charge them for these frames and paintings?

A.             I wouldn’t charge them in advance, no.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             You would not charge them in advance, but would they have to pay you back?

A.             Yes, after they sold them, they would have to pay, to pass me the, yes.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             How much would they give you like per painting, or was there a set amount each week they had to give you, or?

A.             They were amount to be give me for the painting, 80 dollars painting, and 85 dollars frame.

Q.             How long were you doing this? How many weeks?

A.             Approximately between 16 to 18 weeks.

Q.             How many weeks after coming to Canada would that have been?

A.             Eight weeks.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             You started eight weeks after having entered Canada?

A.             Yes.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             How did you get this job?

A.             There was a ad in the newspaper in Israel.

Q.             When was that?

A.             The beginning of March.

Q.             Before you came to Canada?

A.             Yes.

Q.             So you had the job before you came to Canada?

A.             Yes. But it was just an option for me. I came here originally to travel. And then because of my lack of cash, a lot of money, I started working. I was supposed to work for a period of time and then to continue my travelling. To leave Canada to South America.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             Okay, how much are you getting for yourself out of these ...

A.             This money?

-                Yeah.

A.             I would get eventually between two to three and half thousand dollars a month. Like I get it every...

Q.             That’s for your own?

A.             That’s for myself, yes.

-                Okay.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             The people that worked for you how much did they get?

A.             It’s something you won’t be able to say because some of them they don’t sell anything, so they wouldn't get anything. Some of them sold a few I cannot really say.

Q.             Did they get a percentage of the profits per painting?

A.             From their sales, yeah.

Q.             Did you have any expenses...

A.             Yes.

Q.             ...other than... what were your expenses?

A.             Cell phone, vehicle, accommodation.

Q.             Accommodation for yourself...

A.             Yes.

Q.             ...or accommodation for them?

A.             For myself.

Q.             Cell phone, you said cell phone.

A.             Cell phone.

-                Car.

A.             Car and accommodation, vehicle and obviously fuel. I’m driving a rental. It's not my vehicle. Everything just to support myself.

Q.             Who made their room?

A.             They did.

Q.             They paid their room?

A.             I paid it in advance and they returned me the money. They couldn’t afford a month in advance.

Q.             So you paid a month in advance?

A.             Yes.

Q.             All right, so...

A.             It’s not came, it didn’t came from my pocket, but yes.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             Where did it come from?

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             Where did the money come from?

A.             Like I explained the officers from immigration, I’m not in charge of this business. I’m not the head of this group of students. There was another guy, there is actually another guy or two or twenty, I don’t know what. The one that I’m aware of on top of me. I would take the money from them and I had to, give him the money after I got my share. And from this money I could rent their houses, and then when they return me, I would add this to the sum and give it to him.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             Who is that person?

A.             (inaudible) I don't have any specific information on him. You must understand it’s the owners of this kind of business wouldn’t like to expose themself into any...

-                Okay.

A.             Any problem with the law. So it’s usually they stay, like in the case, they stay in the dark, no names, no phone numbers, no address.

-                Well...

A.             Even if I wanted to...

-                ...you have to get in touch with him. You have to return the money.

A.             He would have called me to my cell phone, let me know when can I meet him in Toronto.  Most of the time in Toronto. He would give me the money and...Excuse me, I give him the money.

-                Yes.

A.             He give me the frames and the paintings. So.

Q.             Does that person lives in Canada? Would you know if that person is a Canadian citizen or a foreigner, or?

A.             He’s an Israeli.

-                Yeah.

A.             He told me he lives in the States. I wouldn’t take his word of.

-                Yeah.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             Why were you hired as the group leader of this group?

A.             He liked me I guess in some sort of way. I met with him in Israel and I spoke with him for a while and he...

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             You met with him in Israel prior to coming to Canada?

A.             Yes. The way I got into this job is through his help. I called him and I got the message they will come to me if I (inaudible) the job. I met him at (inaudible).

-                Yes.

A.             He explained to me, first of all, I was supposed to call him as if I would work as a salesman going door to door trying to sell the paintings. Then he asked me about my military service. What I did here, what did I did there. And my military service, has a certain...

-                Background.

A.             ...experience, background. It was sufficient for this kind of job. That’s why eventually he wanted me to do this job and not other. Want to be salesman or something else just...

-                Be a kind of a supervisor.

A.             Yes. And I must say that at least for the concern of taking care of the employees after you found out they’re not Musad [sic] agents and I hope that it’s clear for everyone.

Q.             That?

A.             We’re not Musad [sic] agents. That they were taken care of very good. I took care for everything they needed starting accommodation, going onto all sorts of problems they had, all sorts of issues they needed to solve as foreigners in a country. And they were treated in the most decent way I could manage.

-                Uh-hum.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             How much money did you bring to Canada with you?

A.             I came with me with four-thousand U.S. dollars and a very big ...not a lot of Canadian dollars. But when I met my, my parents were already in Canada last week actually, so they brought me another sum of Canadian.

Q.             How much money did you have when you were arrested?

A.             First of all, I never got a report from the police on how much money did they seized us. 

Q.             How much do you think was there?

A.             There was three-thousand and four-hundred or five-hundred U.S. dollars, and between seven to eight thousand in Canadian dollars.

Q.             How did you have four-thousand dollars U.S. to come to Canada? Were you working in Israel?

A.             First of all, I used to work, not in the last year, but I lived and worked in Israel. I’ve been working since I was 16.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

Q.             But how long have you been out of employment?

A.             Two years, two years and something.

Q.             Out of employment prior to your coming here?

A.             But I, once again I was working since I was 16.

-                Yes.

A.             Providing myself.

-                Yes.

A.             And I didn't let... I do have a wealthy family that has put some money aside. So this state of my life when I do mostly travelling I'm using this money to travel.

-                Okay.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             Where have you travelled?

A.             Oh, no.

Q.             No, no, but where?

BY MEMBER (to Minister's counsel)

-                       Well, Madame...

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

-                Sir, do not answer the question.

BY MEMBER (to Minister's counsel)

-                That question is not real...

A.             Relevant.

-                ...relevant to the allegation.

A.             All right.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to person concerned)

Q.             How long had this group been in Ottawa? Not all members of the group but this group of sales people.

A.             Approximately a month and a half.

Q.             Did you have a work permit, an employment authorization to do this work?

A.             No.

Q.             Where did you travel in Canada?

A.             All over. East coast, West coast, all over.

Q.             Did you know anybody in Canada?

A.             Yes.

BY MINISTER'S COUNSEL (to member)

-                That's all my questions.

A.             Thank you.

BY MEMBER (to person concerned)

-                Madame Powell, has ended her presentation of evidence, and she believes that your testimony is sufficient to establish the well-foundedness of the allegations brought against you.

Q.             Is there anything you would like to add on your side?

A.             I don't have any question, but I have a few things to say if your honour is willing to hear it.

-                Go ahead.

A.             I would like to say first of all that I really appreciate and love your country. I think it’s one of the greatest country in the world if you look at it, and I travelled a great, a lot. I travelled a lot so I can tell the difference between a state to another. Since I started working with this here I had a lot of ideas and lot of thoughts about opening here a business in Canada. I do not want to get a Canadian citizenship. I would like to spend the rest of my life in Israel. I'm satisfied with my citizen, my Israeli citizenship and yet I think that Canada has a lot to offer to foreign investors. And I think that me with my, if I can say, talent and my will to work, I can help Canada a lot.

-                But this, Mr. Laniado, you’ll have to do through the proper channels.

A.             I know. That’s...

-                That is you’ll have to file for permanent residency...

A.             A week in advance.

-                ...at an embassy.

A.             A week in advance to the incident, to the arrest, actually I started doing some, going to lawyer and this and that to try and open a business. Legal business, to stop doing the monkey business stuff, and to open it legally to pay taxes like everyone else and do everything right, on the right way. I’m aware that what I have done is wrong and I can see why the Canadian government is doing us this hearing and eventually will probably send us to our main land.

-                Yes.

A.             I would like to at least have the opportunity to say that I would like some day to come back to Canada, and on a legal permit, of course, to open a business and to try and do something which I know can be very nice here. Can help me, can help Canada, can help the people of Canada. Because after all Canada is a growing country and you need both young men to work here, or women. And I would like to add something else that is relative to this case, if I can.

-                Yeah.

A.             That when we got arrested, so eventually when we set off to our homes, (inaudible) so some of our belongings wasn't returned to us. I had a wallet, a leather wallet, 35 dollars inside the wallet with two credit cards, two debit cards, an Israeli Driving License, my International Driving License.

Q.             Those documents were seized by the cops, by the policemen?

A.             They weren't seized. They were, I have downstairs you can, over here maybe you can see photographs of all these documents. But somehow they weren't returned to me. I came here, we were released on Friday evening. Saturday, Sunday I came here there was no one here. There was no one to talk to. I left messages.

-                Okay, okay.

A.             Impossible. And right now nobody finds it by the way.

Q.             Oh, the documents are lost?

A.             The documents are here, but my credit cards, my Driving License, I don't have any four or five...

Q.             Where are those documents? Do you have them on file?

A.             The police and the immigration blame each other for losing them. Basically it's...

-                Well…

A.             Right now when you seize all the money.

-                Yeah.

A.             And all my documents and my passport is here, in Canada I’m stuck.

-                Unfortunately, I cannot intervene in this matter, but I understand your concerns and you will certainly have to inquire before immigration and the policeman in order to find out what happened to those cards. And someone will have to certainly answer and give reasons why those cards have suddenly disappeared. That's all I can say on this.

A.             I'm not saying for anything other than reason that right now I don't have any ID. I can...

-                No, ...

A.             Because my family...

-                ...immigration has seized your passport. The passport will be returned to you when you will leave Canada.

A.             But the thing that until then I don’t have anything. A few days ago I was pulled over by a cop. It took almost three hours until, like for a traffic violation.

-                Yes.

A.             ...it took two hours until he finally understood who I am, what am I doing here, and what can he do to me or whatever. He could arrest me immediately if he wanted. He was just nice trying to solve this thing in a good way. I don’t have any credit cards, so I need to make new ones. I cannot do it. I don't have any ID. I don't have any money. I cannot get any Western Union money transfers. And please get me my passport back. I'm not asking you to find the wallet, but any kind of ID. I’m not gonna run from Canada with anything.  I have bond of fifteen-thousand dollars.

-                Yes, Mr. Laniado, this will have to be discussed with immigration. I cannot order immigration to return you the passport. They’re the only ones who are to decide on whether they will keep it on their file or they will return it to you. Okay. But I’m sure Madame Powell is taking good notes of what you’re saying at this time, and I hope immigration or the policemen will be able to trace your credit cards and the rest of your belongings.

A.             Thank you, sir.

-                Mr. Laniado, the evidence adduced during the course of today's admissibility hearing consisted of your sole testimony which reveals at first that you are a citizen of Israel by birth in that country on February 7th, 1979. You are not a Canadian citizen nor a permanent resident of Canada, and this is sufficient for me to conclude that you have no right to remain into country.

                Now, you testified having entered Canada, on March 23rd, 2003, at Toronto.  At that time you said, you told the examining immigration office at the Port of Entry that you were coming here as a tourist. You also said during the course of today’s admissibility hearing that this was, as a matter of fact, the sole reason for you coming to Canada. You said it was the sole reason for your coming to Canada when the question was asked of you.

A.             Ah, to travel.

-                Yeah.

A.             Ah, yes.

-                Now, you got arrested on the 12th of September 2003, and you have now admitted that you've been working in Canada as a supervisor. You're getting between two to three, or thirty-five-hundred a month, plus you have expenses that are being paid. That is your cell phone, accommodation, vehicles, fuel and all that kind of things. You never asked for nor obtained a working authorization.

                You said that prior to your coming to Canada, you had seen ad in a newspaper in Israel and you called someone, met you in Tel Aviv and discussed what the work was all about. And because of your qualifications, it was determined that you would not act as a salesman door to door but you would rather supervise a team of salesmen. And you started working eight weeks after your arrival in Canada.

                Having fully considered the evidence before me, I find, Mr. Laniado, that you are a person described in Paragraph 41(1)a) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act in that, on the balance of probabilities, there are grounds to believe you are a foreign national who is inadmissible for failing to comply with the Act through an act or an omission which contravenes directly or indirectly a provision of the Act, and that is the requirement of Section 30 sub (1) which states that you cannot work in Canada unless authorized to do so under the Act.

                Now, there was another allegation to the effect that, on a balance of probabilities, you would be inadmissible for misrepresentation of a material fact. You said that when examined at the Port of Entry you told the immigration officer you were coming here in order to sightsee the country. And you answered Madame Powell’s question by saying that this was the only reason why you had come here. However, when considering that prior to initiating your trip to Canada, you contacted someone who had put an ad in a newspaper about work in Canada. So to inquire about the details of that job, you even met with the person who, following discussions, has offered you to be a supervisor rather than selling paintings door to door. So I think in all likelihood you weren’t only coming here to sightsee Canada, but you were coming here so to engage in employment as well. Maybe doing both at the same time. But you also had the intention of engaging in employment since you had already... you have already discussions prior to your coming to Canada about this kind of job.

                So I find that the second allegation is also established on a balance of probabilities, and consequently I am hereby making an Exclusion Order against you. And this will mean that you will be removed from Canada. You will be called to leave, and you will be prohibited from coming back to Canada for two years.

A.             For two years.

-                For two years you can't come back. If you want to come back though, you may come back within that two year period of time, but you need to obtain the Canadian Immigration Minister's written consent which could be obtained any Canadian Embassy in any country where Canada has a delegation.

A.             In how much time should I leave?

-                This immigration will tell you how long they’ll give you to make arrangements and leave the country. Okay.

                Today’s hearing is now terminated. I’ll have you sign the order.

            The transcripts of the deportation hearings of the art students are revealing. Former and well-educated former members of the Israeli military acted as if they never knew it was against the law to work in another country without a permit. There were references to an unnamed “boss” who lived in the United States and owners of the art selling operation who wanted to avoid run-ins with law enforcement. Perhaps the art students in Canada were merely unaware but couple the Canadian art operation with the American operation carried out just two years prior and a pattern of deception emerges. The motto of the Mossad is noteworthy when pointing to its foreign operations: “By way of deception, thou shalt do war.”

            There was an interesting postscript to the Israeli espionage activity in the United States before, during, and after 911. In December 2004, it was reported that a former senior U.S. government official, commenting on the FBI’s raid of AIPAC’s Washington offices, stated that in 2001 the FBI discovered a “massive” Israeli espionage operation on the East Coast, specifically including New York and New Jersey.[104] National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and her deputy Stephen Hadley were both briefed on the FBI investigation of Israeli espionage in the United States shortly after they took office in early 2001.[105] A Justice Department source confided that it was Attorney General John Ashcroft who personally ordered the investigation of the Israelis stopped in the months prior to 911 – a decision that proved fateful for the thousands of people who perished on September 11.

_______________

Notes:

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